Quick Reminder on XoO Policy

Discussion in 'Public General Chat' started by kinetic medic, Feb 11, 2009.

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  1. kinetic medic
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    XoO does not support the proliferation or usage of file sharing / movie / tv show watching services that violate the copyright privileges of such properties and as such all posts of this type will be deleted or moderated. Please if you wish to discuss these sorts of things keep it to PM's or use a different forum.

    Thanks!

    P.S. yes this is why those watch-movies posts got whacked.
     
  2. Roch The Shaman
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    whops sorry about that didnt know it falls under that list
     
  3. kinetic medic
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    No worries, just wanted to remind folks and let you know why it was removed.

    -KM
     
  4. Secksy
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    What if we talk in code?
     
  5. Lev
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    No site will do this, there's a few situations:
    A) A site is "illegally" supplying media that has been expressly prohibited from ripping, and are in cuba or off-shore in a locations where these laws do not apply, in which case almost all forms of media fall under laws prohibiting the supply of such things.
    B) A site is providing media which only is illegally experienced if the user does not have the original media on hard copy to begin with, in which case the user is put under full liability and as long as XoO disclaims in it's application form, rules of CoC then XoO can't be held liable.
    C) A site linked is providing torrents to trigger indiscriminate file sharing, which would then be the liability of the user to go through with it.

    Generally, if a site isn't shut down then it's usually protected by having the liability shifted to the user and as such XoO would also be able to shift it's liability.

    Liiiike Youtube, if there's a video up which contains a song, XoO can't be held responsible for it's users viewing it because it has to pass through both the responsibility of the uploader and host so there's no way they are going to blame the downloader let alone a site which has a link =P
    If youtube has media it shouldn't have on it Youtube doesn't get sued... they just take it down.
    So unless XoO is HOSTING illegal media I can't see a problem with 99% of the situations.


    But, as far as situation A goes, yeah that can cover some pretty dangerous situations which should be banned... like bomb making information and CP.
     
  6. kinetic medic
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    You can nitpick all you want, we aren't having it on linked via the site or talked about here. Thanks buh bye.

    -KM
     
  7. Secksy
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    This was supposed to be funny.
    Guess I fail.
    :(
     
  8. Meemo
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    Why does the location of their servers matter ?
    Either way it is a site promoting illegal downloads, so it is not acceptable on the XoO forums.

    Since when was it legal to download stuff because you own a legal copy ?
    Have such disclaimers ever held up in court ?

    And the XoO leadership wants no part in promoting it.

    Care to back this up with references to the laws involved, or lawsuits setting such a precedent ?

    Except there is a significant difference here between Youtube and the sites that deliberately host the illegal downloads. Youtube removes the illegal videos when they learn about them. But the illegal download sites have the vast majority of their content being illegal downloads (or links to them).

    Morally I see no difference between hosting the illegal content yourself and linking to it.

    Except that it is often easier to just remove the dubious material than to try and distinguish it from the illegal material.
     
  9. Kyoji
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    the reasoning lev is using is that not everyone is from America or Europe and as a multi-gaming community that does not allow for religion and politics due to the fact that everyone is from a different country it seems odd that we would embrace one set of rules from one country versus another. Also, its not like we will get sued or anything stupid like that.

    If what KM is saying is the truth then I suggest we BAN all youtube listings as there are many things on there that break such laws.

    Personally I don't care about this linking crap, but it seems off that such an idea would be actively discussed when it wouldnt effect XoO either way. In other words, why does the Xenate actually care? I do not know.

    Also, those that do it, please do not sound condescending, no one likes that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2009
  10. Lev
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    Because different areas of the world have different laws, and when your area such as the majority of the world has a law about media which can only be infringed by the host they can basically operate outside those area's legal system while still providing their service. It's not illegal per say but it doesn't go over well politically >.>


    Since when was it not? As long as you didn't rip it, don't distribute it or sell it the general rule is you're allowed to have media on other formats once you own that media.

    You do mean ethically? The difference is liability.

    We should also remove 90% of our digital art.
    How about in-game video captures?

    Seriously though, where are these policies coming from?
     
  11. Meemo
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    Which is why we should try to enforce a set of rules that will hold in most countries without being unreasonable.

    Could you please be specific about which laws would make certain youtube videos illegal.

    Then you have the difference between that watch-movies site and youtube. Watch-movies was quite blatantly helping people watch movies illegally, with nothing that looked legal. However youtube is at least trying to keep itself free of illegal content.

    Lets say you were a game developer looking to offer a guild entry into a closed beta. Who would you view as more likely to respect the NDA ?
    - A guild who is openly linking to illegal downloads on its forums
    Or
    - A guild who isn't.

    Sure, this isn't going to be the only factor. But it will be a factor.

    But the actions of the person who uses that site remain legal or illegal in their jurisdiction regardless of where the server is located.

    Generally the laws against copyright infringement are written so that everything is banned unless is has a specific exception written into the law. Sure, it might be different where you live. But can you be sure about it without reading the law in question ?

    Are you using the law to define your ethics ?

    Or are you saying that the Xenate should ignore ethics when setting policy ?

    I haven't been looking much at out digital art. Is most of it stolen or something ?

    I'm pretty sure that in-game video captures come under fair use, which is one of the exceptions in copyright law.
     
  12. kinetic medic
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    Again most folks here are nitpicking at it cause someone has said don't do it. The thing is, this has been a policy with XoO for awhile now and it's not going to change just cause the logic may/may not be flawed or poorly explained (I am not the best debater in the world, so there.) You can argue infinitely on shades of gray but that does not change the end result.

    It should be enough that you have been asked to avoid posting things that blatantly go against this sentiment and be content with this. If you still have issue with this please let me know and I'll be glad to discuss any arguments with merit with the rest of the Xenate.

    Thanks!
     
  13. Kyoji
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    I wouldnt say they are nitpicking, just interested to see what peoples views are about such a thing.

    But, the fact that its a policy should not negate discussion of it. "Its good because we say it is" isnt a good policy standard. But, agreed that if you simply ask people not to post such things then it shouldnt be a big deal, at least for this scenario anyways.

    So, in closing I am done posting, just wanted to play with the wording of statements from people. :D
     
  14. Lev
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    See: Ebaums thread =P
    Intent is not measured in what goes on, its what the PR shows.

    I'd offer it to the most anal guild.
    On the other hand I'd never join that guild.

    Business ethics are formed in the respect of law, but anyone can follow law without respecting it. I follow a LOT of laws which I flat out disagree with, and I break them from time to time just because I know what they are intended for and it clearly doesn't apply.

    The Xenate's job is like a DM's job, balance fun and limitation to the players. If there is a need for it then sure I'm reasonable, I can relate, but I'd like those rolls to be on our side of the screen.

    None of out "graphics artists" really "design" anything, Panacea is probably the closest we have to a designer the rest of us including me are digital editors who hunt and use images without permission.

    KM said to nitpick?! =D

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Meemo
    Guest

    Kyoji, why did you decide to use red text instead of quote tags for your reply to me ?

    By putting your reply in a quote box, it means it is stripped when I hit the quote button.

    Agreed. There are enough people who disagree with it that it needs discussing openly. And if the Xenate isn't willing to defend their own policy, I'm not going to try and defend it either.

    Actually, where can I find a list of XoO policies ?
     
  16. Lev
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    Last edited: Feb 11, 2009
  17. Ironjaw
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    too many quotes make me a sad panda
     
  18. kinetic medic
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    In short I hate you all :p

    -KM
     
  19. s o k a r
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    I watch dash movies through a dot in a net

    You know you love me.
     
    Roch The Shaman likes this.
  20. To expand on KM's point, it has always been XoO policy that dialogue is destructive and that to shepherd the stupid masses is the only way to keep a low-skilled guild functioning.
     
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