Need some help with computer networking

Discussion in 'Tech Talk' started by Mistshade, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. Mistshade
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    All righty, here's the deal:

    Once upon a time, I had some computers set up on a network. One computer running XP Media Center upstairs, and a computer running 32-bit Vista Ultimate downstairs, as well as an xBox and a media server. All was good, and the internet ran fine.

    Then I got a new computer. This one was running 64-bit Vista Home Premium. Here's the quirk: When I try to plug it in to the wall jack (ie router) that I had my XP computer on, it can only see an Unidentified network but can not connect to that network. Ie no internet. But, I can plug my old XP computer into that same wall jack and everything works fine.

    I then carted the new computer downstairs, and plugged it directly into the router. Lo and behold, it works. I can get onto the internet, etc. However, this is not a feasible solution, as I need it upstairs, and I'd rather not run a 75-foot CAT cable across the floor and down the stairs.

    Also, if I unplug the cable from this computer from the router, and plug it directly into the modem, this apparently works as well (but precludes any of the other computers from accessing the internet and I lose the router firewall)

    I've researched as best I could, but to tell you the truth, network problems are just a l'il beyond my skill set. I'm implementing what simple fixes I can, but half the stuff I'm coming up with I don't understand. I'm hoping somebody out there knows a little more about network stuff. Fingers crossed that it's an easy-peasy solution.

    Let me know if there's other pertinent info that could be useful. And I... I'll continue trying to track down a solution I can understand and implement.

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2009
  2. dr_jay
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    Did you have the Windows XP machine and the Vista 64 machine both set to automatically detect IP or did you assign an IP to the XP machine?
     
  3. Neptuno
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    im assuming that the wall jack is simply a female ethernet cable inside the wall between your router and work station? last couple of connection setups would be modem to wall to 64vista on the other end or the other vista machine on the upstairs. it could be some sort of thing with vista going through what's basically an extention cord, but that really doesn't make sense.
     
  4. Rubius
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    Open up Command Prompt and type in

    ipconfig/all

    DHCP field should read "Yes". If DHCP is set to "No", then right click your network adaptor in "manage a network connection" and click on TCP/IP, then Properties, then make sure both options are set to "automatically".

    The line right under the DHCP line should be your computer's LAN IP address. If there isn't an IP address there, then type in

    ipconfig/release
    ipconfig/renew

    and then check again to see if your router assigns your new computer an IP address.

    Actually, if this doesn't help, then post a screen shot of the ipconfig/all results.

    If all else fails, reset your router to factory settings.
     
  5. Mistshade
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    Okey dokey, here's what I have:

    Vista 64 (the one not working) is set to automatically detect as is the Vista 32 (the one that is working).

    Now, as for assigning an IP to the 64... I tried doing that with not a lot of success, but not a complete lack of it either. If I fiddle around with my 64's IP address, I can occasionally get it to read Network and Internet in the Network and Sharing panel as opposed to an Unidentified Network and no internet. Now, I'm not able to actually get onto the internet, but the 64 thinks that a network and the internet exist.
    Perhaps manually inputting the IP could be part of the solution?

    And yes, Neptuno, that's basically the setup and the net result. My Vista 64 doesn't seem to like going through an 'extension cord'. I'm sure there's a better reason, but that's all I can come up with.


    And Rubius...

    Yep, did the ipconfig/all, my DHCP is set to Yes. Both IP Address and DNS server are set to obtain automatically.

    Now, the line right under my DHCP line is one that reads:
    Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
    The next one is
    Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::8138:f0c7:7746:d854%10(Preferred)

    I did the release/renew and popped up a few error messages.

    Anyhoo, here're my ipconfig/release, ipconfig/renew, and ipconfig/all results for those more in the know than I (including error messages):

    ********************************************************

    C:\Windows\system32>ipconfig /release

    Windows IP Configuration

    An error occurred while releasing interface Loopback Pseudo-Interface 1 : The sy
    stem cannot find the file specified.


    Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

    Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
    Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::8138:f0c7:7746:d854%10
    Autoconfiguration IPv4 Address. . : 169.254.216.84
    Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0
    Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

    Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 6:

    Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
    Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :

    Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 7:

    Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
    Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :

    Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 11:

    Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
    Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :

    C:\Windows\system32>ipconfig /renew

    Windows IP Configuration

    An error occurred while renewing interface Local Area Connection : unable to con
    tact your DHCP server. Request has timed out.
    An error occurred while releasing interface Loopback Pseudo-Interface 1 : The sy
    stem cannot find the file specified.


    C:\Windows\system32>ipconfig/all

    Windows IP Configuration

    Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : Corey-Game
    Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
    Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
    IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
    WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

    Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

    Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
    Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8168C(P)/8111C(P) Family PCI-E
    Gigabit Ethernet NIC (NDIS 6.0)
    Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-23-54-40-44-6F
    DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
    Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
    Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::8138:f0c7:7746:d854%10(Preferred)
    Autoconfiguration IPv4 Address. . : 169.254.216.84(Preferred)
    Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0
    Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
    DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : fec0:0:0:ffff::1%1
    fec0:0:0:ffff::2%1
    fec0:0:0:ffff::3%1
    NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

    Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 6:

    Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
    Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
    Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft ISATAP Adapter
    Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
    DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
    Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

    Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 7:

    Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
    Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
    Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
    Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 02-00-54-55-4E-01
    DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
    Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

    Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 11:

    Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
    Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
    Description . . . . . . . . . . . : 6TO4 Adapter
    Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
    DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
    Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes



    ******************************************
    If needed, here's the ipconfig/all from the Vista 32 machine (the one that works). Maybe something to compare to?:

    ******************************************

    Windows IP Configuration

    Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : Office-PC
    Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
    Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown
    IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
    WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

    Ethernet adapter Bluetooth Network Connection:

    Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
    Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
    Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Bluetooth Device (Personal Area Network)
    Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-1E-4C-CD-0C-49
    DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
    Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

    Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

    Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
    Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) 82566DC-2 Gigabit Network Connec
    tion
    Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-1D-09-33-D2-62
    DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
    Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
    Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::ece0:c89d:c5a6:ffe8%11(Preferred)
    IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.101(Preferred)
    Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
    Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : February-09-09 6:52:50 PM
    Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : February-09-09 9:52:49 PM
    Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
    DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
    DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.0.1
    NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled

    Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 6:

    Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
    Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
    Description . . . . . . . . . . . : isatap.{6DB25AB1-B72E-414B-87E4-7F4F2A29A
    AF9}
    Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
    DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
    Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes

    Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 7:

    Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
    Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
    Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 02-00-54-55-4E-01
    DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
    Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
    Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::38c4:141a:3f57:ff9a%10(Preferred)
    Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :
    NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled

    Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 12:

    Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
    Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
    Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft ISATAP Adapter #2
    Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
    DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
    Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
     
  6. EF2
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    If that ipconfig is from the machine when it's connected, it's not seeing the router obviously. I'd try setting up static ips and plugging in the gateway to make sure your Vista x64 machine can connect to the router from that jack i.e. make sure everything is physically good, even though your XP works (did you try your Vista x86/32 in that port?)
     
  7. Mistshade
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    I haven't tried the Vista 32 in that port, as it's a lot of cable unfeeding I'd need to do. But my old XP computer does work from the port the Vista 64 is now plugged in to.

    And picking static IPs was sort of what I was going to try next, but I'm not too knowledgeable about that sort of thing. I take it I need to go into the TCP/IPv4 properties on the 64 and plug in:

    IP Address: 192.168.0.###
    Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
    Default Gateway: 192.168.0.1

    Preferred DNS server: 192.168.0.1

    ie the same as what the Vista 32's ipconfig says, but with the ### in the IP Address on the 64 something other than 101.

    Now, I had been doing some of this earlier, and managed to get the 64 to think it sees a network and think it sees the internet. Would it be a better time to try the ipconfig/release, ipconfig/renew while it thinks it's connected?
    Also, the first few IP's I guessed at didn't work much past the 64 thinking that a network and the internet existed, then back to seeing an Unidentified Network. Would this simply be a matter of plugging in different IP Address numbers (ie 102, 103, 104, etc) until one of them connected and worked?
    I'm also assuming that having the exact same Subnet, Default Gateway, and DNS server as the 32 machine won't cause a conflict.

    Let me know if I have the gist of it, and I'll get started guessing IPs, or if I have any corrections to make to that process.

    And thanks all for the time and help!
     
  8. Aerthan
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    When you plug your computer into the wall do you see a light go on on the router corresponding to that port? Do you only have the ethernet built into the motherboard? You don't have separate card.

    If you see a connection light and you are plugged into the ethernet port on the motherboard I would do the following:

    Use Control Panel -> Networking, and edit the TCP/IP properties on the device. Uncheck dhcp and manually set you IP address to an open ip address, like 192.168.0.75 (ping the address from another computer first to make sure it is clear) and set the subnet mask to 255.255.255.0

    Once the ip address is set ping 192.168.0.1, if that works then your problem is just with the dhcp server, I would probably just google that model to see if there is some kind of security protocol that got turned on.
     
  9. EF2
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    When you're doing static IPs, make sure you enable that option on your router. I didn't see you mention it anyway, so I'm assuming you did not.

    You can also try changing your link speed. If it's on Auto Negotiate, try 10Mbps, 100Mbps, or 1000Mbps. It should be somewhere in your network adapter advanced settings.
     
  10. Aerthan
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    Ah I've never had to do that, but I do have a somewhat strange configuration, I have a linux box that does dhcp for me since I wanted to have port forwarding on my router.
     
  11. Mistshade
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    All right. My old XP computer elicits a solid activity light from the router on the appropriate slot. However, when I plug in my Vista 64 computer, I get a rapidly blinking light. I am using the built-in ethernet, though my computer did come with a LAN card, hoever I'm having even less success with that.

    Somehow, I managed to turn off DHCP, but don't know how since there's no Networking option in Vista, just a Network and Sharing Center. Regardless, I managed to manually set my IP subnet, and DNS. I used both the 192.168.0.75 as well as the 192.168.0.103 that my XP computer successfully uses.
    Now, when I ping with either the Vista 32 downstairs or the Vista 64 upstairs, I get pings of various success. Some get through, some don't, and some do it quickly, some take close to a half second. I just pinged 192.168.0.1 from the Vista 64 twice. The first time, all four attempts timed out, the second time all four received a reply in <1ms.

    I dunno, between myself and my dad putting our heads together, we've spent close to 15 hours trying to get this thing to work. I'm sort of at the point I might just see what those Nerds on Site guys charge and have them try to blow through it.
     
  12. EF2
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    Try turning IPv6 off and ping again.

    I'm guessing the cable is probably bad, probably too long, or not shielded properly and getting interference.

    You could also try upgrading your router firmware to see if that fixes anything.
     
  13. GTomlinson
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    If it's working locally to the router without the cable in the wall, it's obviously the cable in the wall. Most likely one or more pins on the jack or plug at either end is bad. Ideally you'd get a punch-down tool and a cable crimper and recrimp a new plug on and cut and re-punch the jack. There is a cheaper fix, though, at reduced performance.

    Here's the pin configuration on a typical CAT5e RJ45 connector:
    WO O WG Bl WBl G WBr Br
    where O=Orange, G=Green, Bl=Blue, Br=Brown, W=White.
    Now some crappy cable manufacturers sometimes mix this up, but as long as you have a pair in the center, a pair around that, and a pair on the left, and a pair on the right, you've got a working cable.

    Now in the old days of networking people tried to get more out of their cables and wanted to run both phone and computer network through them, so commonly we ran ethernet in a mode called half-duplex. In half-duplex, you use the center pair and the left-most pair. The other 4 wires are completely ignored (and could be used for something else). The problem with half-duplex is you can either receive, or transmit, not both, so if your PC is transmitting, and another system tries to transmit, you get a collision and the packets are lost and have to start transmitting over again.

    Full-duplex, which is used more often now that packet switching has gotten cheaper (another discussion), uses all 4 pairs of wires to be able to transmit and receive at the same time.

    Most network cards are set up to automatically detect the duplex and auto-negotiate the speed. BUT your realtek network card (most likely integrated on the motherboard) is derived from an old 3com 3c509b standard chip that had a bug which cropped up with some brands of network switches (I run into it quite often as a network administrator). It can either auto-negotiate the speed to run at OR it can detect the duplex mode, BUT NOT BOTH. If you happen to have a bad pair on your ethernet cable, it won't see that and think it can still do full-duplex, which, since the center pair is fine, you'll still see a link light on either end.

    The cheap fix is to go into the settings on the network card (easiest to go through device manager to get there) and change the setting for duplex to force it to HALF-DUPLEX. Your old computer with the Intel network card was probably successfully detecting that one of the pairs in the cable was bad and switching to half-duplex anyway, so the performance should be the same.

    The best fix is to go buy some cable making components and fix that cable in the wall. There's a 99% chance that it's just bad connections at either end. There's a 1% chance that something in the wall chewed through it or rubbed through the casing and the wires inside and the whole cable needs to be re-run to get top performance.

    Oh, and put all the IP and DHCP settings back to the way they automatically came up. If the adapter reports "Media Disconnected", then that has absolutely nothing to do with IP address negotiation. It doesn't have a physical connection to as for anything for an address.
     
  14. Mistshade
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    I believe I owe you a beer, sir. I wired up a temporary line and ran it from the router to the computer and it worked. So I pulled the switch plates out and rewired the wall cables and got myself some working internet. Silly of me to forget rule number one of fixing electronic devices: check the connections.

    On a related note, I found out why my nice LAN card wasn't working... on a hunch, I opened up the case... and found an unseated PCI LAN card. Either the guys who put it together hadn't seated it properly, or it had come loose during shipping.

    Slapped in a TV PCI card, and fixed my audio drivers, and I'm now mostly good to go. Just need to figure out why my headset keeps becoming unrecognized and fix that, then fix the sound drivers onmy old computer. It's nice having most of this crap fixed.
     
  15. Neptuno
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    glad you got it working... yeah, i was trying to see the other configurations to see if it was a cable thing, but the xp vs vista half duplex went well beyond what ive seen in my networking systems, so thanks for giving us the opportunity to learn something too
     

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